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Kuün Hearing


The SARU judicial hearing of the Vodacom Blue Bulls flanker Derick Kuün will take place in Pretoria at the offices of the Blue Bulls Rugby Union on Friday at 14h00 after he was cited for foul play during an Absa Currie Cup Premier Division game against The Sharks in Durban on Saturday.

Kuün was cited under Law 10.4 (a) for striking The Sharks hooker Bismarck du Plessis during the 56th minute of the game. The Sharks defeated the Vodacom Blue Bulls 16-12.



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1. Eerste soos die Bulle altyd vir my sal wees!!!!
Posted by Jimmy (Altyd Blou) Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 17:08
2. Ek is vies vir Derick. Hy moes die rammetjie uitnek harder geslaan het!
Posted by Rustig (Centurion) Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 17:10
3. As hy skuldig bevind word en geskors word, tel dit dan vir die eerste Super 15 wedstryde van volgende jaar of hoe.
Posted by klaasie (Somerset Wes) Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 17:20
4. To all those who hates critique against our beloved bulls:

Would people criticize if they didn't care?

Are the Bulls players satisfied with themselves after Saturday?

Are the Bulls satisfied with not winning a cup or playing in the final?

Stop making others feel guilty or turning this blog into a "ja-broer" choir where everybody blames the ref, or the wet field or the bad supporters. Modern rugby is not a game for the "dankbares". We are not some mediocre, mino "across the Jukskei union" who likes to loose and applaud mediocre teams.

And all of us, the dart-throwers and the life savers, are adding the necessary spice to make this a great side to support. Being a Bull is about being part of a culture, not being part of a yaught club being in denial and being satisfied with a sinking ship in the harbour. It is because of these dynamics, that our players will excel next season, and thereby declare and acknowledge, that they have not been at their superbest they can, and make all the "ag kom ons wees net dankbaar" people go red in the face.

I will stay a Bull forever, but I hate to see us loose like golden oldies. Come on Bulls we can do better than 4th place! You know that!
Posted by bloukreef (bloubergstrand) Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 17:25
5. My maggies Rustig, van waar gehasie?
Posted by Jimmy (Altyd Blou) Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 20:09
6. Stem 100% saam met jou bloukreef!
Posted by Christel (Johannesburg) Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 20:49
7. Ek hou van wat Judge geskryf het op die vorige blog. Maar ek glo die ouens wat so kritiseer, doen dit omdat hul soos elke goeie bul, dit haat om te verloor.

Om dinge mooi in perspektief te plaas: ons het vanaf 2002 tot 2010, dus in 9 jaar, in 9 finale gespeel, 3 S14's en 6 CB's. Van 2002 tot nou was ons elke jaar in 'n finaal, of S14 of CB, en laasjaar in albei. Daarvan het ons al drie S14's gewen, 4 CB's gewen, 1 gedeel en 1 verloor.

Kyk, as dit nie die beste nog ooit is nie, weet ek nie wat is nie. Ons het baie om voor dankbaar te wees, daar is sekere provinsies wat glad nie finale sien nie, en ander wat dit nou eers regkry na 8 droeë jare. Ek praat onder korreksie, maar ek dink die langste tyd wat die Bulle nie 'n finaal gesien het nie, was 1992-1997, 5 maer jare.

Onthou, om bo uit te kom is moeilik, om daar bo te bly is nog moeiliker.

Dankie aan die span, bestuur en afrigters deur die afgelope 8 jaar se vele vreugdes. Sterkte vir veral die volgende jaar of twee, wat as 'oorgangsjare' beskou kan word vir 'n nuwe geslag om op te staan.

Jy kry bulle ondersteuners wat die Bulle ondersteun omdat hulle wen.
Dan kry jy Bulle ondersteuners wat die Bulle ondersteun omdat hul Bulle is, wen of verloor.
Die laaste ondersteuners is die ware Bul ondersteuners, deel van die blou familie.

Bulle !
Posted by bendiebul Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 22:09
8. Bloukreef
I accept that you are not Afrikaans and therefore might not fully understand what it is I am trying to say. I also accept that you refer to me as one of the “ja-broers”, being part of a yacht club happy to see a sinking ship and being ok with that. If that is what you think of me, you are so sadly mistaken.
I hate to loose. I do not believe there is something like a good loser. If you don’t hate losing, you are just that...a loser. However, I do not let my emotions cloud my logic. I did not like losing Saturday, but I understand why we lost. And I understand why we had a difficult season. And I am proud of what this young team have accomplished despite all the problems. And differently from those bitter critics here, I would rather focus on the positive aspects of the season than the negative.
There is also a major difference between constructive criticism and the negative Bull-bashing that has been happening on this blog the last couple of months. You are talking about being part of a culture at the Bulls, and you are absolutely right. But this Bull-bashing most certainly is not part of Bulls culture. This is exactly what led to the Sharks blog being terminated. This is what happens on the blogs of the other teams. That used to be one of the things that separated us from them. But now it seems we are becoming like them. If you think this negative criticism will make the Bulls better next year, you are seriously mistaken. Do you think the Bulls team are sitting at home feeling fantastic about what happened in Durban? Nobody feels worse than those guys. They also admit that they were beaten by a better team on the day. This happen in sport. Nobody can always be at their best. None of us are....but you expect the Bulls to always be at their best.
In sport you get supporters and fans. Fans are those people you see when the team win and hear when they loose. Supporters you will always see, win or loose. Supporters don’t bash. They.....support.!!! At no stage did I say that I am happy with the end of our season, but if you look at the situation the Bulls were in this season, then making the semi’s and losing by four points against a highflying Sharks team, in Durban, is still amazing. If you cannot understand the circumstances of this season, and therefore understand what I said previously, by looking at the results of this season with a little bit more perspective, then you sadly are not on my wave length. My philosophy in life, being it sport or in my professional career, is to always go for gold. If you play for silver, you have already lost. But even if you play for gold, you are not always going to get gold. That does not mean that you are suddenly bad. If it is not your day, accept it and try again.
You say that the”ja-broers” blame the refs......but your clan are now blaming and bashing our own players. What is the difference? The latter is worse in my eyes.
If you and other feel guilty because of my previous post, then I am happy. I hope all the bashers and bad supporters feel guilty. They should feel outright ashamed. When our young team needed their supporters the most, the were blatantly absent. We want our team to always give their very best. Don’t you think this young team deserved they same from its supporters? Playing at Loftus and it sounding like Newlands or ABSA park? Now that is ridiculous !!!! Take a look at the English soccer supporters. They support their teams 100%, even after being relegated from the Premier League. Look at the Coca cola championship and see how full those stadiums are in the second league !!! Now that is support.
Posted by Judge (Middelburg Mpumalanga) Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 23:39
9. HOU DIE SPASIE DOP VIR JUDGE SE LYKSKOUIING VIR CURRIEBEKER 2010.

Nag ou grote!!!
Posted by Judge (Middelburg Mpumalanga) Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 23:42
10. Ek hoor Casper Steyn het ernstig seergekry in 'n motorongeluk... hy is tans in die hospitaal...

Ons bid vir jou Casper - mag jy gou buite gevaar wees en ten volle herstel.
Posted by zet (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 06:29
11. Sterkte Casper, ons dink aan jou.
Posted by Jimmy (Altyd Blou) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 06:34
12. Jimmy,

Wat is die finale uitslag van die TDM wat ons gehou het?
Posted by koedu (Brits) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 07:12
13. Ons gebede is met Casper en sy familie.

Judge dankie dat jy ons siening verduidelik het. Ek het nie die tyd of geduld gehad om dit te doen nie.

Laaste ding wat ek wil sê. Die wat Victor se besluitneming wil blameer, net die volgende moontlikhede.

1. Victor besluit om vir kantlyn te gaan. Bulle voer goeie maalbeweging uit. Druk drie. Wen wedstryd. Almal happy en al die Bulle is ons helde.

2. Victor se vir Morne om die skoppe te vat in die laaste paar minute:
2.1 Morne skop oor. Ons kort 2 punte om te wen. Sharks skop af wen die bal. Hou vas aan die bal soos hulle 80% van die wedstryd gedoen het. Bulle verloor. Almal haat weer vir Victor want hy het nie vir die kantlyn gegaan nie.
2.2 Morne skop oor. Ons kort 2 punte om te wen. Sharks skop af. Bulls wen die bal en teken weer punte aan (strafskop of drie- maak nie saak hoe nie). Bulle wen. Almal is happy en Bulle is ons helde.
2.3 Morne skop mis. Ons verloor. Victor word blameer omdat hy nie vir kantlyn gegaan het nie terwyl almal kon sien Morne sukkel in die kondisies. Morne word uitmekaar gehaal vir sy swak vertoning. Almal is ongelukkig en braak gal.

3. Victor doen presies wat hy gedoen het. Dit werk nie uit nie en ons verloor. Almal is ongelukkig en braak gal.

Die punt wat ek probeer maak is dat dit altyd maklik is om te kritiseer as mens klaar weet wat gebeur het. Sou ander besluite ons laat wen het? Dalk? Dalk nie?

So hou op om spelers uit mekaar te haal oor niks. Kan enige persoon op die blog die toekoms sien om te weet wat kon dalk gebeur as Victor gedoen het wat julle sê? Kan Victor die toekoms sien? Die antwoord is eenvoudig NEE.

Hy het "op die oomblik" besluite geneem wat hy gedink het die beste onder omstandighede was. Dieselfde tipe besluite wat voorheen soveel wedstryde vir die Bulle gewen het.

Ek is net soos almal ook nie gelukkig met die verloor nie. Ek haat dit om te verloor. Maar anders as ander kan ek ten spyte van als insien dat die Bulle nie altyd kan wen nie. Maak nie saak hoe graag ons dit wil hê nie.

So ek aanvaar die verloor (alhoewel ek dit haat). Maar ek gaan nie so laag daal om spelers of afrigters persoonlik af te breek nie.

As die Bulle in die doodsnikke die wedstryd gewen het sou nie een van julle gekla het oor swak spel of besluitneming nie. Almal sou net gegons het oor hou trots hulle is om 'n Bul te wees. Wel ek is nog steeds trots op my span ten spyte van 'n verloor.
Posted by unbeata"BULL" (Choker Hunter) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 07:25
14. Ek het nie die storie van Judge gevolg nie en verstaan nie waaroor die gekerm gaan nie. En nie nodig om oor te verduidelik nie. Kan egter nie onthou dat iemand ref se beslissings gekritiseer het nie. Ek het wel sy houding van "I Me and Myself" ge-uiter - laat my laaste tyd (was nie altyd so) baie aan Juwele se houding dink. Dink nogal Craig is regte man vir finaal.

Stem UnbeataBULL. Die wat vir Victor kritiseer oor sy besluite - gaan speel op die treinspoor. Ek het eers Maandag - nie Sondagkoerant gekoop nie - gehoor Victor kan nie besluit nie. Tydens die wedstryd het ek dadelik saamgestem en selfs die TV kommentators ook en julle weet hoe krities hulle oor Bulle kan wees

Sien Jantjies word opgehemel nog voor hy gaan toer. Hoop nie dit gaan sit in sy kop vas nie - dit kan sy loopbaan vernietig.

Nou sien ek ook die Sharks sou eerder dood as om teen B Bulle te verloor. So hulle teiken was wen semi. Dit nou behaal - mission accomplished - en beteken WP gaan hulle rol.

Nou ons hoop op o/19 en o/21. Dit kan nogal lekker wees as ons WP 2 in 'n ry hier kan klop - hoop hulle gaan dit uitsaai.
Posted by NETBLOU (Centurion) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 08:09
15. Bendiebul no.7

Sedert 1968 (van wanner die Curriebeker min of meer in die formaat gespeel word soos wat ons dit vandag ken) tot 1991 = 24 jaar. Die Bulle was in 20 van die 24 finale. Gewen 12 keer, gedeel 3 keer (d.w.s totale wenne = 15) en dus 5 verloor. Praat van dominansie in rugby, totaal en alles gedomineer vir omtrent n kwarteeu.
Posted by Bloudonner (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 08:32
16. Bloudonner,

Dit is ongelooflik, amper te goed om waar te wees. Selfs sou mens terug gaan na 1939 toe "Finale" ingestel is, het Bloues oorheers en loop vêr voor met beker gewen.
Posted by NETBLOU (Centurion) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 08:36
17. Nou skielik sommer weer omgekrap oor Kuun uitgesonder word - ongelukkig nie die insident gesien en wil dit ook nie in twyfel trek nie - maar die Jannie d P kom skotvry met sy kop eerste in 'n losskrum; maak my woudend.

Jong Bulletjies GO!!! En vermorsel die Weer Probeers
Posted by NETBLOU (Centurion) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 08:41
18. Bloubulbloggers – Finale TDM puntestand. In volgorde: Posisie, TDM, blognaam.

01 – 169 - CR
02 – 173 - Bloubefoeterd
03 – 175 - BBB08
04 – 204 - LB
05 – 205 - Bloumens
06 – 207 - CC
07 – 218 - Jimmy
08 – 219 - Jou_Ma
09 – 228 - Zet
10 – 232 - BlousteBlou
11 – 243 - Lekkerblou
Posted by Jimmy (Altyd Blou) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 08:41
19. Baie geluk Koedu, stuur vir my jou e-pos adres na jimmy . kock @ gmail . com.
Posted by Jimmy (Altyd Blou) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 08:43
20. Dink aan die ouens by die 0/21's wie se laaste game dit in 'n BB-trui gaan wees...
Posted by groentjie (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 08:54
21. Baie geluk Koedoe.

Dankie Jimmy - volgende jaar maak ons weer so...
Posted by zet (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 09:09
22. Judge,

Tx for answering me in English, although I can follow everything in Afr. At least it's a positive sign that you are trying to accommodate me.

But I am going to challenge you. You're missing the plot bro. I have never seen any objective critique form you apart from the fact that the ref outsmarted the Bulls. You never ever bring the responsibility of the team to the fore, it is always the ref and then no one should speak up again. Off course the players feel bad, read the last part of my comments again, do you think I'm stupid?


If I am not mistaken, it was NP van Wyk Louw who wrote a booklet called "lojale verset,"

What you are practicing is that everyone should live in a Town called grey, and everyone should paint their houses grey. So let's have a competition to see who is going to have the most beautiful grey house. I'm sorry, but that's your idea of having a conversation. I do like your posts and respect your opinion, but I disagree on some as well, in if I do, don't paint me grey.

And if you call me a bad supporter, - I think you have a problem with people who differ from you and you need to grow more towards having conversations with different kind of perspectives. Not every critical supporter is a bad fan. But In order to win your argument or in the name of being objective or right, you label and polarize them into a corner of being naughty children who should shut up.

I seldom see "those" naughty one's over "there" telling you to go eat some sour grapes on another planet. like the way you telling me and others to do it.

I want to encourage everyone on this site to speak their mind and I need YOU to say it here on this blog and welcome the kommen people as well. Young and old. Apart from a few WP radicals, their is nothing to feel a shame about these bloggers - also, your co-blue Bull companions.

Name calling and slander of a person/player is wrong, but hey, please let the people have the freedom to shout it out when they are unhappy. You cannot call them bad supporters or fans every time they ask questions or let it out: "dit was 'n skande!" or "wat 'n gemors".

They are passionate about the color blue. For them their is only three colors: Blue, Blue and blue. For goodness sake, we are in the 21st century. I have seen some very intelligent remarks on this site and then people are blamed for being bad, useless unloyal fans.

Don't be so sensitive.

Posted by bloukreef (bloubergstrand) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 09:21
23. Ek het reeds hierbo by nr.7 my mening gegee oor die seisoen en hoe goed ons unie is. Wat volgende jaar betref, is daar dan wel die volgende 2 positiewe voorstelle en kritiek wat ek dink aan gewerk moet word:

1. die afwisseling van die wedstrydplan. Met FDP terug, en dan spelbrekers soos Spies, Basson, WO en FH, moet ons en kan ons goeie balbesit rugby speel, afgewissel met diie skoprugby wanneer dit nodig is. Ek glo ook iemand soos Shadow het die potensiaal, soos hy gewys het in die S14 hierdie jaar, hy moet met die regte wedstrydplan net reg benut word, heelagter ?

2. ons blog: dankie vir al webbie se harde werk, tog dink ek met al die tegnologie beskikbaar, kan daar baie meer gedoen word om wedstryde wat nie op TV uitgesaai word nie, lewendig hier aan te bied. Kyk na die voorbeeld by rugby365.com, by hul 'rugby live' afdeling, daar word die hele wedstryd per minuut oorgedra in kort kommentaar van verskillende bewegings (dus nie net die tellings nie), so dit kan gedoen word. Dalk is dit iets wat die ondersteuners onder mekaar kan reël ?
Posted by bendiebul Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 09:29
24. Ou Bimsarck moet weet dat daar in die Bybel staan, Hy wat moeilikheid soek, soek nimmer te vergeefs. Bismarck het gekry waarvoor hy gesoek het
Posted by Bomskok (Prince Albert) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 09:47
25. Geez i was at that keo.co.za website and i could not believe it how much that site is anti - bulls.................

It was very disturbing when i saw our bulls supporters critisizing pierre and call him show ponny......................some say he is past his sell by date.......unbelievalbe rubbish i tell you..............

Me think pierre spies will start for the boks in the end of the year tour.............

As good as duene vermuelen is on form nobody touches pierre.
This is to wp and south sfrican supporters the currie cup is NOT super 15.

Yes Duene and Ashley are playing well BUT international rugby is a whole different level.

I have belief and faith that spies will shut up his critics again next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Muzi (Johannesburg) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 09:51
26. More almal

Het kommentaar gelewer van Maandag op die blog en ook almal se menings gevolg.Het tot die gevolgtekking gekom dat die blog begin raak nes die politiek. As positiewe kommentaar gelewer word is alles super,maar sodra daar kritiek in meeste gevalle opbouende kritiek gelewer word.Word die messe uitgehaal.Dan soos in die geval met die media,wil die politici stilmaak.

Bloggers wat eerlike kommentaar lewer,word gekruisig.Niemand val spelers persoonlik aan nie.Wel spelpeil.Danie Rossouw en Morne en besluitneming vas vrot Saterdag.Dit is nie persoonlike aanvalle.Net die waarheid!

Kyk na telling raai kompetisie.Ek is laaste omdat ek glo in ons span.Ons was vrot in die Currie Cup.Dit maak nie nou van ons n vrot span nie.Net n paar verstellings moet gemaak raak.GO BULS!
Posted by Lekkerblou (Durbanville) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 10:03
27. Na aanleiding van unbeata BULL (#13) se skrywe:

Ek wil 100%v agter jou staan met jou beskrywing, Victor het Saterdag die regte besluite gemaak, ek dink net, dat die res van die forwards nie saam daardie besluit gedeel het nie, en hulle het ook nie hulle gewig 100% agter daardie besluit gegooi nie.

Sou hulle soos in die S14 daardie besluit uitgevoer het het ons verseker gewen, so ek dink eerder die ander 7 manne in daardie pak forwards moet dalk die blaam dra, of die kritiek kry ipv Victor.

Bulle altyd eerste!! Go Bulle!!!!
Posted by LB (Ceres) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 10:13
28. Bloukreef, maybe you should rather see a shrink, so you can dump all your emotional baggage there. You will have full freedom to tell him or her exactly how you feel about everybody, your grandmother, the government, the Bulls, etc. I am not one of those blaming the ref or the players, although they all make mistakes, and we do observe them. I did play rugby so I know what it takes, and how easy it is to make a mistake or wrong decision.

I think you should start playing rugby, then I'd love to hear how people break you down and criticize you, also not constructively. Now suddenly the 21st century is justification to break people down? Where did that come from? You agree name calling and slandering of a person is wrong, but say people should have the freedom to do it anyways? Hey murder is wrong, but I think if somebody is angry, they should be allowed to do it anyways, right? Who are you to tell them they are wrong when they murder somebody? Journalist also reason like that. This is the Blue Bulls supporters blog. Not the Sunday Newspaper. There is a difference between passionate and emotional. Common sense and emotional blabbering. You are welcome to have opinions, but if I was the BB Company, and you keep posting on my website how bad and pathetic I am (even though I won you the S14 and Vodacom Cup), I'd tell you to go cry to your shrink. Emotional remarks are not necessarily intelligent remarks. A baby gets emotional and cries when he gets hungry. When an adult gets hungry, he knows he is going to eat later, so he contains himself. The one sees the bigger picture, the other only sees the immediate picture. Like judge's difference between a fan and supporter.
Posted by Willie Blou (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 10:14
29. Let bygones be bygones en kom ons beweeg aan.
Posted by Jimmy (Altyd Blou) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 10:23
30. Lekkerblou, dit gaan oor perspektief. Sê jy ry iemand dood, dadelik wil almal jou kruisig. Maar sodra dit nagespeur word, word daar byvoorbeeld uitgevind dat jou wiel gebars het, en jou kar het balans verloor. Kan jy jou emosies in toom hou tot jy die volle prentjie weet? Dit is waaroor dit gaan. Ja, ek stem saam Danie en tot 'n mate Morne het ook nie goed gespeel nie, maar dit gaan dat baie ouens sommer dadelik die nou die spelers permanent wil uitlaat en sommer die coach wil fire, taktiek wil verander en sommer alles en almal wil fire. Perspektief sê ons wen al twee jaar na mekaar die Super 14. Het nou die Vodacom Cup gewen, en laasjaar die Currie Cup ook. Perspektief se ook verder dat ons baie ontwrigtings gehad het met die Bokke, met beserings, ens en ja, miskien kon dit verhoed gewees het, maar beide die spelers en die coaches leer ook uit hulle foute uit. Dit kom daarop neer dat mense eerder hulle emosionele baggage wil kom aflaai hier, which is fine, maar kom ons doen dit soos volwasse mense. As ons kinderlik wil wees moet ons in die media of politiek ingaan.
Posted by Willie Blou (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 10:26
31. Bloukreef & Judge. Let's leave as is, no point in all getting hot under the collar. We are proud Blue Bull supporters and all have our surmissions of what went awry, that's part of any game and also of life. Yes we are disappointed i.r.t. Saturday's result but let's give the players time to reflect on, digest and analyse the team's shortcomings. Please, if the has to be critizism do not let it be personal. In all families there is frustration but there is also love and understanding, we ARE the BLUE BULL family. Relax ladies and gentlemen it is not the end of the world, the sun will shine again to-morrow.

Posted by Thurlow (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 11:04
32. Bloukreef

It would appear as if you want to make this a personal argument. The majority of what I have said in my first post yesterday was not aimed at you. It was aimed at people who always wants to chase away a player after one bad game. My criticism is aimed at people who criticizes emotionally. I never said all criticism is negative. I never said all criticism is unwarranted. I never said everybody must agree and nobody may form and utter an opinion. I never said anybody who disagrees with me “should be painted grey”. I encourage debate. I was a member on the Sharks- and WP blog for a long time debating with them. People who totally disagree with me. If you make that kind of assumption about me, I can tell you, you cannot be further from the truth.

However when I debate, I like to debate sensibly. And you cannot debate sensibly if you are controlled by your emotions. I see this everyday in my job. Once you become emotional, all logic runs out of the door. I am not unemotional. I scream and shout and gets angry even with our players, but once I sit down and assess what happened, my emotions subside and logic enters the room. I love to debate our team. That is why I am on this blog. But then I do not want to argue with emotions, because you cannot win against emotions, because emotions cannot see or think clearly. Any book or directive on leadership or management will tell you that the kind of criticism that is now leveled at the players here, is destructive and NOT constructive criticism. There is no possible positive outcome for this kind of criticism.

Anybody who makes claims that ….the players were not hungry for a win….or that Mornè is not good enough….or that Pierre should rather go and get an overseas contract…and Jaco Pretorius is USELESS !!! ……are arguing emotionally. Forgive me for not accepting that. Because that is not what true Bulls supporters do. Or rather that is not what we used to be. If that is what you want this blog to be….then so be it. Then maybe there is no pace for me here. When I joined this blog looooong ago, it was a place where Bulls supporters came to discuss rugby, not to bash our own players. The majority of those bloggers left for this exact reason…new bloggers only coming to bash our team, in their highly emotional state.

You now say that I polarize people and put them in certain catagories. What were you doing yesterday? You are the one who started by saying people who think like I do, are “ja-broers” and “members of a yacht club, who don’t care if the ship sinks”. Now suddenly our opinions are labeled by you, and we should shut up??

I wonder if you would ask any professional sports team what they prefer…. Loyal supporters who sits with them through thick and thin or only emotionally based bashing? I bet you 10 out of 10 will take loyalty.

I have been critical of the players in the past. I was very critical of Jaco vd Westhuizen earlier in the season. I do not, however want to bash everybody’s head in every time they mess up. This happens. This is life. Nothing is perfect. I can see that. I can accept that. And criticism under those circumstances do not have any positive effect. There is a huge difference between “lojale verset” and emotional criticism. Then there is always the most important aspect of criticism that people(not necessarily you !!!) forget, and that is my argument. Constructive criticism must be FAIR !!! All I have been saying since yesterday is to keep criticism FAIR. Understand the circumstances and judge it from that perspective. Criticize if you want, but from that perspective otherwise it becomes BASHING, not criticism.

I accommodate anybody’s opinion, otherwise I would not have been on this blog. In 2008 the same thing happened during the Super 14 season. People on this blog bashed the hell out of the players and especially Frans Ludeke. I and some others kept on saying that we should see that season from the perspective of all the problems within the camp, and then you can judge and criticize. A number of bloggers then also jumped on my head as you are doing now. The majority however have in the meantime changed their views. Ask Shannow. He was one of them. Today he also see things in perspective before criticizing. In life you learn quickly not to do important things when you are emotional. Why should blogging be different?

And lastly. Thank you for the personal accusation that I never bring any objective criticism, but always blames the ref. Many Bulls supporters wants to hang Marius Jonker. Did I say anything? I know he made some mistakes, but that did not cost us the game. Some others games we won easily, but I was still critical of the ref. You see, I have a SARU rulebook. I am in fairly regular contact with one of the SARU refs, and constantly discuss rule interpretations with him. So I believe I am in a fairly good position to see when a ref had a shocker. Still that is not what my main criticism is on the refs. If their interpretation is different from mine, I accept. (Especially since I know what happens behind the screens concerning the interpretations). What I cannot accept, is inconsistency within a game. What one team is being penalized for feverishly, the other team is not. That I do not accept. It comes back to my motivation on criticism…FAIRNESS. If the team deserve to loose I will always put that on them. But if the ref do not give a team a fair change to compete in a game, I will not blame the team. Your accusation against me in really unfair and wrong.

So my friend if you want to debate rugby with me, please do so. I want to. Leave the emotions, start the logic and lets have a nice debate. Do not come to the table loaded with senseless emotions. That is not constructive debate. That is a shouting match.

If you want to read a very interesting take on criticism, find the speech made by Theodore Roosevelt in the Sorbonne in Paris in 1910. The speech is titled “The New Republic” , but the important part is titled and well known as “The man in the middle” speech. Very interesting.

So I invite you to argue the rugby facts with me, not the emotions.



Posted by Judge (Middelburg Mpumalanga) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 11:40
33. Dag vrinne,

Eerstens wil ek Casper sterkte toe wens hoop hy herstel . Dink ook aan sy familie en vriende.

Tweedens vir die wat die bulle nou so onnodig kritiseer, mense dus net 'n game en die manne wat daai mooi blou trui dra het hulle beste gegee.
As jy die tipe mens is wat net jou span in sukses wil ondersteun, wel dan met alle respek gaan ondersteun 'n ander span. Daar is vir my niks swakker as mense wat net hulle spanne ondersteun wanneer dit goed gaan nie... Die bulle kan doen sonder sulke ondersteuners.
Die game kon enige kant toe gegaan het.
Moenie vergeet dat ons nog sonder Guthro, Gary,Juandre, Fourie en Akona ook was nie. Praat nie eens van spelers soos Spies, Deon , Bakkies wat duidelik wedstryd tyd gekort het nie. Dit noem ek nie as enige verskoning nie, maar net as feite... Maar soos alle spanne speel die kaarte wat aan jou uitgedeel word.
Die Sharks het net hulle hand beter gespeel op die dag, hulle het bo aan die punte lys geiendig en verdien hulle plek in die finaal.

Dus maklik om nou na die tyd te moan en groan.
"Show me a good loser and I show you one who loses often" is 'n ou gesegde... Glo my ek haat dit as my span verloor, maar mens moet ook volwasse genoeg wees om jou opponent die erkenning te gee as hulle jou verdienstelik geklop het. En die Sharks het puik gespeel op die dag, niemand kan dit betwis nie.

Ek bly trots op ons afrigters - geen kinderagtige gekerm oor refs of verskonings nie. Geen klagtes by die DBV oor bye of klagtes oor misbruik van branblussers etc etc

Ek bly trots op ons spelers, die jonges soos CJ Stander, Dean Greyling, Juandre Kruger , Watermeyer etc gaan nog diep spore loop in rugby.
Ek bly trots op die seniors Victor, Spies, Bakkies, Danie, Wynand bly wereld klas spelers... hierdie manne het al baie gedoen vir daai blou trui en glo ek sal nog baie bydra in die toekoms.

En moenie vergeet nie die Super 14 en vodacom cup trofees staan op loftus...

Nee wat , mens moet so nou en dan op jou kniee gedwing word, dit help mens om weer jou dinge in orde te kry.

Merk my woorde , volgende jaar gaan 'n goeie jaar wees vir die bulle.
Ons het klomp jonges speel kans gegee, en die manne sal met nuwe energie en determinasie 2011 aanpak.

Webbie wat is die nuus oor die junior spanne?

Lekker dag vir julle almal .

Blou Bul Groete :-)
Posted by Aiken Drum (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 11:55
34. Yes Thurlow

I am done agruing emotions. I want to talk rugby !!

WATCH FOR THE 2010 POST-MORTEM.
Posted by Judge (Middelburg Mpumalanga) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 11:57
35. Dag Alle Blou Bul ondrsteuners

Kan iemand vir my se wie was die losskakel vir NTV voor Naas
Dankie
Trotse Bul
Posted by EC Bul (Uitenhage) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 11:59
36. Aiken Drum

Ek kan net sê...AMEN.
Posted by Judge (Middelburg Mpumalanga) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 12:08
37. So volgende Rugby op die kalender (na die CC finaal) is die Springbokke se toer.
Kan nie wag om die span te sien nie. Laaste werklike kans vir Divvy om nuwe spelers te toets.
Posted by unbeata"BULL" (Choker Hunter) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 12:18
38. Post 35: EC Bul, dit was Joos le Roux.
Posted by Jimmy (Altyd Blou) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 12:21
39. Jimmy, met al die klaery nou hopelik verby, wat van die liedjie vir die manne met die naam "There are more questions than answers".
Posted by Stapper (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 12:26
40. Die momentum was verbreek met die inbring van die bokke.Flip moes nooit uit die beginspan weggelaat gewees het nie. Danie rossouw op agsteman asb boys die lostrio was gekies om te verdedig nie om balle te wen of te steel nie.
Ek vra asb volgende jaar om spoed op die lostrio as n vereiste te stel. sorry frans maar hoe het jy gedink kan n slot en haker teen keegan,albert,skansko
kers vas hou.Dit was soos alblacks laas wordl cup hulle planne vir final teen ons wou spaar en toe die semis veloor.Die regte span sou maklik in die final gewees het
Posted by bulperd (kimberley) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 12:51
41. I am glad I spoke up,

Willie Blou, Ok, so all the ladies that have not been rugby players themselves should be excused from the blog. Stupid argument, but I'll be watching you closely to see how much you actually know about the game. Sounds like we can learn a lot from you.

I am not your psychologist, but you gave me a window on your soul, Hope you feel better now. All I can say is: Preach it brother!

Posted by bloukreef (bloubergstrand) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 13:46
42. Judge

I take that as a "sorry I made a mistake in judging others" too quickly.

Just a note: If you call me your "friend," please mean it or earn it.

I like facts, and facts to give perspective, but 75% of a team's psyche is seen through body language. Body language is a form of communication. only 25% content can persuade. I could see, after 15 minutes of rugby, the Bulls were going to loose, though I hoped otherwise. It is called "soul". Soul appears even in rugby.

I will argue with you, but I will protect the rights of others to differ from you and others as well. If you want to e the judge, be fair to all.



Posted by bloukreef (bloubergstrand) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 13:56
43. Bloukreef

I did not apologize ! I did not "judge" others. I am saying the bitter critics judge without perspective, and most of the criticism aimed at the team in UNFAIR. That is what I am saying. Your last sentence in post 42 does not make sense. I am not judging others. This whole debate started because the bitter critics are unjustly judging the team!!

But it seems as if what I said the last two days, you cannot or do not want to understand.

I call you friend, because all Blue Bulls are my friends. UNTIL you do things that make me not want you as a friend.

This is the end of my debate on this issue. If anybody do not understand my argument, bad luck for you. Read it with calm and sober logic, and if that does not work, move on.

SELA
Posted by Judge (Middelburg Mpumalanga) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 14:21
44. Dankie vir die deeglike uiteensetting Judge! Ek sou baie van jou kommentaar kort en bondig gestel het maar dan vloek ek die mense.
Hierdie is per slot van rekening die "Vodacom Bulls and Vodacom Blue Bulls Official Website"; dis nie 'n twitter page of facebook bladsy vir ondersteuners van ander spanne om teenoor die Bulle en/of hul ondersteuners beledigend te wees nie.
Ek voel sterk dat daar op hierdie blog 'n mate van sensuur moet wees, dit behoort gereserveer te wees vir ondersteuners vd Bulle, hetsy die kritiek positief of negatief is. Kritiek sal altyd grootliks emosioneel wees maar dit is onaanvaarbaar vir ondersteuners van wp, of enige ander span om hier beledigend te wees. Dit is nie 'n openbare platform nie, dit is 'n amptelike webtuiste.
Vir diegene wat vyande vd Bulle is, voel vry om twitter,facebook daarvoor te gebruik.
As die vlak van debatvoering daal tot die vlak vd afgelope paar weke met oa bulls r kommin aan die voorpunt, glo ek nie die blog het op hierdie webtuiste enige bestaansreg nie. Dit is sonder twyfel ons almal se plig om dit op 'n beskaafde vlak te hou, en hier is bydraes van Judge,Zet,Sooi Brandt, Ligblou en Jimmy baie belangrik. Fly by nights is maar soos diarree, dit kom met seisoene :-)!
Posted by Bloubosvelder (Bosveld) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 14:49
45. Ai jai jai :)

Something sort of related to the current topic regarding supporters and fans as metioned previously.

I walked into the office on Monday wearing my Bulls supporters shirt. Head held high and guess what happened? Got told I was arrogant by a Sharks supporter. Told him this is not arrogance my friend, this is me showing that win or lose I still support my team. He had nothing to say after that.

Sad thing is that on Sundays in Pretoria, after the Bulls have won the previous day, you always see a lot of people wearing their Bulls shirts. But this sunday? Did not even see one other person wearing their shirts. This is a basic example of what Judge meant by "you get supporters and fans". True supporters will still show their support in whatever way, shape or form. They will attend every game even though their team is having a pathetic season. They will wear their shirts in support even if their team got trampled the prevoius day.

Fans you only know about when the team is doing good or winning.

I am not accusing anyone here of not being a true supporter. But take the time and think about it. Are you a supporter or a fan?
Posted by unbeata"BULL" (Choker Hunter) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 14:51
46. Sien Wynand het ontrek vir die eindjaar toer.Spier besering moet gesny word.Reg vir Super 15.Se hy sit al met die probleem vir so 4-5 weke.Amper semi misgeloop.Was hy fiks genoeg om te speel laas Saterdag?
Posted by Lekkerblou (Durbanville) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 15:01
47. Met die maat waarmee julle meet, sal ook vir julle gemeet word. Lukas 6 : 38.
Posted by Blou Karnallie Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 15:06
48. Mane. Ek is nogsteeds positief oor die seisoen wat verby is. Ons het sonder die beste speler in die wereld gespeel (FDP),baie springbokke en beserings (Gary, Van Velze, Ndungane) en nogsteeds die semi's gehaal. Plus jong manne soos CJ Stander, Okkie Kruger en Stephan Watermeyer het gewys wat hulle kan doen op hierdie vlak.
ONTHOU OM VIR GUTHRO TE STEM VIR SPELER AVN DIE JAAR OP SARUGBY.CO.ZA Dit sal hartseer wees as iemand anders dit wen omdat ons nie gestem het nie.

Posted by bbvb (Cape Town) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 15:08
49. Judge
Van al die rugby blogs waarop ek is, is jy die een persoon wat die mees "objektiefste" is. EN dit is al vir jare so.
Posted by Rustig (Centurion) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 15:14
50. #45 UnbeataBULL

Ek stem saam - ek het Vrydag oggend my Blou trui aangetrek - ek is Loftus toe, Vrydag aand geslaap met hom, heel Saterdag aangehad, Saterdagaand geslaap met hom, Sondag oral met hom rondgeloop, Sondagaand geslaap met hom... Maandag oggend toe sê my vrou ek begin ruik... toe trek ek hom maar uit... onder protes natuurlik!!!!
Posted by zet (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 15:21
51. Zet... Goeie een :)
Posted by unbeata"BULL" (Choker Hunter) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 15:24
52. Hoor, Hoor, Rustig!
Posted by Ligblou Baron (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 15:26
53. Tellings vir die finaal:

chokers 22 - 19 weer probere - LB
Posted by Ligblou Baron (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 15:29
54. Tellings vir die finaal:

chokers 22 - 19 weer probere - LB
chokers 23 - 18 weer probere - uB
Posted by unbeata"BULL" (Choker Hunter) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 15:47
55. Tellings vir die finaal:

chokers 22 - 19 weer probere - LB
chokers 21 - 15 weer probere - Bloubosvelder
Posted by Bloubosvelder (Bosveld) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 15:49
56. Tellings vir die finaal:

chokers 22 - 19 weer probere - LB
chokers 23 - 18 weer probere - uB
chokers 21 - 15 weer probere - Bloubosvelder
Posted by Ligblou Baron (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 16:57
57. Wynand "YSTER" Olivier, sterkte met die operasie!!
Posted by Bulletjies Bo (Pretoria) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 17:05
58. stem nie saam met jou nie blou kreef
na die eerste 40 min het die sjaaks seker 90 % balbesit gehad en hulle was net 4 % in ons kwartgebied. Ek het tot dit probeer uitwerk en my wiskunde se dit was maar 96 sekondes , en daar was 4200 sekondes.
Maar ons was darem 432 sekondes in hul kwart gebied.

Almate die wedstryd aangehou het , het ons al hoe meer gedomineer en ja , self n paar strafskoppe gehad , paar mis geskop en paar hoek toe.
Bulle het hele paar keer doelyn aan geval. Oor aanslae en balle wat sommer net heen en weer geskop was ..het net nie bygedrae nie.
Maar hulle was amper deur ...baie amper

My enigste kritiek is Jonathan Kaplan
daai laaste min was die man maar baie in guns vir die sjaaks
ek se weer ... daai onkantlyn was maar yl. Ons weet hougie is oraait .. maar fourie sou daai ref aangevat het.

Ek wil graag die sjaaks daai sien reg kry met Menere Lawrence of Menere Joubert. Vir my part sou ek verkies menere Jafta eerder moes fluit.
Maar Jonker ... aai die geskiedenis loop lang pad .. en almal weet van hom.

Ek sonder net een ref uit in die land .. ja .. Jonker ... die res is ek mee gelukkig en is vesot op Lawrencce en Joubert. Hulle probeer n wedstryd laat vloei.

Ek wil ook net se .. ou Jonker kry nie al die skuld nie .. sjaaks het hard gespeel ..
Posted by sweetlips_Bull (Krugersdorp) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 17:10
59. Sweetlips

we weren't really in the game. The scoreboard didn't reflect the game. I have to make sure, but we also had a lot of tackles to make and, we missed quite a lot as well. You could see the way we stood up after tackles to fall back into the line or even positions that was taken in on the defense we weren't on top of our game. Not as quick and focussed as we could have been. I also think ball handling has to do with momentum and confidence. we actually held better onto the ball in the wet wet wet second half.

I think our 2010 season compares well with 2008. In that year our Boks were chsen but they were not quite in form. habana had a bad final, Fourie was injured and Kirchner returned from an injury.

I think the two best sides of the complete season of CC deserves to be in the final.
Posted by bloukreef (bloubergstrand) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 17:20
60. Die beste is om die verloor agter ons te sit en voorentoe te kyk. Jy kan niks verander aan dit wat reeds gebeur het nie. Dink net dat die jong span van die Blou Bulle net beter gaan wees volgende jaar. Na die uit tree n paar ou manne gaan ons volgende jaar hioerdie tyd in n beter posisie wees, met nog nuwe name wat gaan bykom.
Kom om wees posiief oor die toekoms!! Dit wat die span, spelers en afrigters bereik uit in die afgelope 9 jaar het nuwe teikens gestel. Geen ander franchise het nog bereik wat die Bulle gedoen het nie.
Hier in die Kaap kry ek baie bohaai oor hulle in die finaal is maar ek is nog steeds trots op die 2 uit die moontlike 3 bekers in een seisoen.
Wel gedaan Frans en die span!! Dis great om n Bul te wees in die Kaap.
Saterdag braai ek n Snoek en gooi hom in die drom, ek haat vis.
Posted by Kaap'se bul (Durbanville) Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 19:11
61. Natal 28-WP 17

Hoop Natal gee hulle goed op hulle ,julle weet wat

Manne ek wil graag deelneem aan die TDM volgende jaar ,hoe werk dit
Posted by Anti Province (Velddrif) Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 15:58
62. Dit wil vir my voorkom of FH se beste posisie nie skrumskakel ois nie. Hy is n ou wat iets uit niks kan maak maar hy is te stadig agter die skrum. Ek dink hy was eerste klas op vleuel maak ek dink senter sal hom goed pas. Hy verdedig soos n tier en is lekker laag op die grond. Morne het net nie genoeg tyd om besluite uit te voer nie, mens sou dink dat hy ten minste een skepskop in die semi sou kon maak...maar sy tyd was te min.
Posted by Kaapse Blou Bul (Kaapstad) Friday, October 22, 2010 - 16:29
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19 Nov. - Stanley Raubenheimer
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20 Nov. - George Mostert (Jnr)
20 Nov. - Anton Pitout
22 Nov. - Johan Fechter
22 Nov. - Stephan le Roux
22 Nov. - Naas Rossouw
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23 Nov. - Burger vd Merwe
24 Nov. - Chivago Breda
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30 Nov. - Donovan Fredericks